College Planning Is A Retirement Issue

College tuition has turned into a shock test for even high-income families, and the worst part is how quietly it can derail retirement. We sit down as three dads who have lived the tuition bills and we get brutally practical about what college really costs all-in, why the sticker price is a terrible planning number, and how families end up making $100,000 decisions with almost no transparency.

We walk through the data driving today’s student loan debt crisis, then shift to what you can actually do about it. That includes starting early, picking the right savings approach (including how a 529 plan fits and where it doesn’t), and learning the financial aid and admissions system the same way you’d learn taxes or insurance. We also talk about merit-based aid versus need-based aid, common myths around “we make too much to get help,” and why you should treat award letters like something you can review, compare, and sometimes even appeal.

Finally, we put a clean ROI framework on the table: if borrowing is required, total student debt should stay at or below the graduate’s anticipated first-year salary. Pair that with choosing the right school for the right value and you can avoid overpaying for a degree that doesn’t pay you back. If you’re a parent of a middle schooler, high schooler, or a student heading into applications, this is a must-listen for college planning, FAFSA strategy, scholarships, and protecting retirement.

Subscribe for more straight talk on money, share this with a parent who needs it, and leave a review if it helps. What’s the biggest question you have about paying for college right now?

Sources:
https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

https://www.iciglobal.org/research/stats/529s/529s_25_g4

https://www.ici.org/topics/529-plans

https://nast.org/wp-content/uploads/cspn-529-factsheet-march2025-1.pdf

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Disclosure: Information contained in this podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only, and should not be considered as financial advice. Financial Planning and Advisory Services are offered through Prosperity Capital Advisors (“PCA”), an SEC registered investment adviser.  Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Keystone Financial Group and PCA are separate, non- affiliated entities. PCA does not provide tax or legal advice. 

Transcript

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Disclaimer And Ground Rules

Ryan Fleming 0:00

The financial huddle does not provide tax, legal, financial, or other professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with their own advisors in these areas.

Brian Minier 0:06

Alright, everybody, huddle up. Play balls in. This is the Financial Huddle. Ready?

Why College Hits Retirement Plans

Ryan Fleming 0:14

Well, hello, huddlers. Welcome back to another episode of the Financial Huddle as always. Glad to have you tuning in. To my right, uh, Mr. Ed B. Miller.

Ed Beemiller 0:23

Hello, hello.

Ryan Fleming 0:24

Thanks for being here, Ed. Love your intro every single week. Uh, Mr. Brian Manier to my left.

Brian Minier 0:29

Hello. And his intro is really good.

Ryan Fleming 0:31

You're right. I know. It's it's patastic. Patented Ed B. Miller. Patented Ed. Huddlers, wherever you may be. Again, thank you so much for uh tuning in, listening, watching us. And uh today we're gonna talk about a topic uh that's uh been part of my entire career, but also pretty near and dear to my heart, uh, as well as Mr. Brian here to my left.

Ed Beemiller 0:50

And listen, it was near and dear, but it's nearer nearer and dearer less close at this point.

Ryan Fleming 0:59

You've been through the ring earthquake.

Ed Beemiller 1:00

I've been through it and finished it much longer. You guys uh you're listening you're you're the worst of all of us because you let me tell you, man.

Ryan Fleming 1:10

We're I'm repping it today. You may notice that we both have our Baldwin Wallace uh gear on today. And Hudlers, we're gonna talk about Baldwin's is up in uh good old Berea, Ohio. Cleveland, close to Cleveland. Cleveland. Sea Town, baby. Sea Town.

Ed Beemiller 1:23

We got our we got our Sea Town vibe going on. We do.

Ryan Fleming 1:26

Yeah, absolutely. Well, needless to say, today, Hudlers, we're gonna talk about honestly, quite honestly, maybe one of the most pressing financial topics in this country, and this is the idea of college planning, that the incredible high cost of college planning, and how in the world are people supposed to pay for that and not have that money back up into the retirement. So today's episode is called College Planning is a retirement issue. They're not mutually exclusive.

Brian Minier 1:51

Yes, it is.

Ryan Fleming 1:52

And so uh I've spent the past 19 years of my career after I stopped playing baseball um helping families uh plan and pay for one of these humongous wealth transfers that we call college planning. And so uh I guess first and foremost, you know, my son just graduated college, uh up there with uh your son, and hallelujah. Yeah, thank the Lord. One off the payroll. No more bills from Baldwin Wallace University, which means we could put more into our retirement.

Brian Minier 2:24

That's right. I remember going online, paying that last one, taking a deep breath, smiled. This is the last time.

Ryan Fleming 2:31

And huddlers, maybe you've experienced that, maybe you're in the middle of that. Let me just say, all three of us can relate. We we feel you. But in all seriousness, let's get into this topic a little bit. And so I've been able to work with literally hundreds of families um since 2007 when I first started into this and helping them to uh pay for college in a more efficient way. And really what we're in, that the state of the union that we're in right now is that we have a massive student loan debt crisis, right? And we got to talk about that because it it's unbelievable. And we're gonna share some stats with you about that student loan debt crisis here in a little bit. But one of my biggest pet peeves with college planning is that there's an incredible lack of transparency uh in the investment. And a lot of families out there do not treat college planning like an investment, and and that's a problem, right? So, in the same way that nobody listening to us today or watching us today would ever spend $500,000 on a house that was appraised uh for $250,000. That's a bad investment, Huddlers, okay? Um, but the reality is that millions of Americans buy college that way, and and they they don't treat it like an investment. And so we got to get to the bottom of that a little bit, and we have to understand that just like there's a tax system in this country, and just like there's a legal system in this country, millions of people are trying to figure out another system called the financial aid and admission system. And we got to get to the bottom of that. So what we thought we would do is get into this a little bit and kind of put the the State of the Union address a little bit on the current situation on college.

Sticker Shock And Real College Costs

Ryan Fleming 4:10

And so I think it's that time. Oh, yeah. It is. What time? Stat time. Stat time listening to Belly, Eddie Taberboard.

Ed Beemiller 4:20

Yes, it's good stuff. All right. So this you know made me take a little stroll down memory lane since it's been about a decade since uh I I paid my last bill for my my second. Did you have the same smile that I did with I started there there a small tier for was George Washington the presentation? Yes, it was their electricity. It was close to running. Did you have indoor plumbing then? Yeah. Yes, we did. All right. But it continues to amaze me when you look at obviously inflation is inflation, right? Cost of goods, cost of services go up. But relatively speaking, I then look at these college prices, and I'm just like, it seems exponentially higher than just the normal inflation, and I don't know how this trend can continue uh on. Where now really families got to look and say, you know, is this the best bang for the buck next step? And yeah, bang for the buck. But we're we're gonna give you a little uh a little information on pricing. And I when I look at this, you always have you know pricing broken down for college education, tuition and fees, room and board, books and supplies, all this stuff. At the end of the day, what is it gonna cost me? Just give me the bottom line, right? So all in is is what I like to look at. It's like all right, you're buying a car and stick the body of the car is X, but then all the electronics are this, and then the leather is, which the seats are leather, so you gotta choose them, are this. Just give me the sticker. What's the price of my damn car, right? Okay. So for Ivy League schools, those those that are intelligent enough or know someone to get into these institutions, room and forget room and board, all expenses included, average ninety-four thousand five hundred and thirty dollars. You know, I haven't looked into the stat, but I would say, you know, uh the majority of our population doesn't make households do not make ninety-four thousand three hundred fifty. Now that's just a year.

Ryan Fleming 6:22

That's per year, too.

Ed Beemiller 6:22

Annually, right? So this this isn't a one-time expense. This is this is uh a four-time expense, right? When we're looking at this. Hopefully. Um private uh nonprofit uh four-year on-campus schools, so private versus public, just uh is mid mid-60s, 65,470 all in. Yeah, and then we go to the you know the public uh four-year schools, not you know, we're not talking junior college or we're not talking community college.

Ryan Fleming 6:51

OU, BG, Kent. Yep, or the Ohio Ohio State University.

Ed Beemiller 6:56

Um in-state, out of state, and that's always been the case, huge differential, huge difference. Sometimes, sometimes, yeah. So I guess this is our tax dollars in Ohio uh working for us. But for in-state, so if your child lives in state and goes to OU, Ohio State, Bowling Green, Kent State, any of those, $30,990. Out of state, $20,000 more, $50,920.

Ryan Fleming 7:21

Now, yeah, that that's crazy. Now, there's a lot of schools that understand the uh competition for butts in the seats, so they have like reciprocity. So sometimes as a shopper out there, some schools will you know honor that in-state tuition, even though they're out of state, maybe like a school like Marshall, who's just right across the border, for example. So, but man, as we sit here today, Ed, you talked about those Ivy League schools. There are several right now Huddlers, several schools with well over a hundred thousand dollar sticker price right now, which is just insanity to think about.

Ed Beemiller 7:52

Well, and and then I had to go back because you know I I went to a small liberal arts school, kind of similar to both your boys just graduated from B BW. I went to Kenyon. Kenyon right now is at about that 94,95,000. It's right there. Then I I went back and tried to find my last uh you know statement uh from Kenyon back in the 80s. And I think my last year, the all-in cost was a little over twelve thousand dollars.

Ryan Fleming 8:21

There you go. That means perfect context.

Ed Beemiller 8:24

12,000 versus 94 to 95,000. It's just it's insane.

Ryan Fleming 8:29

It's incredible. So I I graduated University of Dayton in 1998 when I was there to give it a little bit of context, it was about $18,000 to $21,000 all in per year, and now it's $75,000, $70,000, $75,000.

Ed Beemiller 8:43

Yeah, and when my daughter went, it was about $45,000, $47,000. She graduated 12 years ago.

Ryan Fleming 8:49

Exactly.

The Student Loan Debt Crisis

Ryan Fleming 8:50

So there you go. So there you go. That's great context. Yeah, that's great context.

Ed Beemiller 8:53

Now the the next big stat, because you you can't talk about the cost of college without talking about, well, how do you pay for it? Well, how do most people how do a lot of people pay for it?

Ryan Fleming 9:03

Unfortunately, through loans.

Ed Beemiller 9:07

So we we talk about these very, very large numbers. You know, we talk about the federal deficit. Um yes, the the previous episode we talked about the great wealth transfer and how much money. So let's put this all into perspective. The total student loan debt outstanding right now is a little less than two trillion dollars. Two trillion dollars. Yeah. And the number of student loan borrowers that are out there is a little over 45 million students have have borrowed that two trillion dollars. Um and the number of students is growing. Now this was this was a stat that kind of amazed me. Is growing in an average of 3,000 individuals per second.

Ryan Fleming 9:59

Per second. Per second. Well, no, $3,000 per second. Oh, $3,000 per second. The debt is growing as we sit here and suck in air. $3,000 per second. Right. I mean, and this is sourced, right? The the sourcing on that is what? Education data.org.

Ed Beemiller 10:15

$6,000, $9,000, $12,000.

Ryan Fleming 10:16

What was that? Um This is all source data. Yeah, we're not talking out of our education data.org.

Ed Beemiller 10:23

Yeah.

Brian Minier 10:25

Oh, it's insane.

Ed Beemiller 10:26

You know, just going on. 7 out of 10, so 70% of kids that go to college graduate with debt, student loan debt. Yeah. Average student loan debt right now is is upwards of over 40,000. So when they leave that, hopefully in four years, that's the case. That's like the average amount they're borrowing. That's the average amount they're they're borrowing, which is once again to me, it's just inflammable.

Ryan Fleming 10:48

I feel like we're getting the huddlers depressed.

Ed Beemiller 10:50

Yeah, it's like, good Lord. College, I'm not going to college. Then, and then okay, how do you how do you pay for that college outside of student? Let's mitigate some of that. So let's mitigate. In financial planning, we talk about you know your

529 Plans And What They Cover

Ed Beemiller 11:05

savings assets helping to pay for that. And one of the things that a lot of families do is contribute into a 529 plan.

Ryan Fleming 11:14

That's probably the most recognizable vehicle out there. It isn't the only vehicle that we would tow or recommend, but it is a popular one for sure.

Ed Beemiller 11:23

So right now, just some updated stats here on 529 plans, you know, and this is a national amount. Um the total balance in 529 plans right now is a little over, probably about $530 billion that people have saved up for their kids' education. Now, once again, we've we've I we've mentioned before that that a $529 plan comes with a little less flexibility than a lot of other options, where it can really only be used for higher education or specific educational you can use some of it for student loan debt.

Ryan Fleming 11:59

I think they allow you to use it for up to like 10 grand of student loan debt, or in the payers past they did it. They've changed some things recently.

Ed Beemiller 12:05

But all tied all tied to the education, yeah, yeah, from that standpoint.

Ryan Fleming 12:10

Um you can roll them to Roths, but that's a different episode for a different day. Later on.

Ed Beemiller 12:14

So there are right now, as far as the number of accounts, there are over 17 million 529s in the city. A lot of accounts out there. Yeah, yeah. So that that is uh the average amount. Like you said. The average amount um in a 529 plan is about thirty-two thousand dollars.

Ryan Fleming 12:35

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

Ed Beemiller 12:37

And that's a little it's a little bit outdated because that comes back from that's the beginning of you know 2025.

Ryan Fleming 12:42

I bet you it's around 32,000, 33,000 right now today.

Ed Beemiller 12:46

So when you looked at that versus in 2009, the average was about thirteen thousand two hundred dollars. So the amount of money now, some of it obviously is adjusted for inflation and time value of money, but you know, it's gone from 132 up to 32,000. So more people, I think, are understanding costs is rising so much that gosh, we got to do something. But but even in that, right?

Ryan Fleming 13:17

What is that gonna cover? A year?

Ed Beemiller 13:19

Yeah, two years at the most?

Ryan Fleming 13:20

Yeah. What are you talking about? Not not even. Yeah, that's what I mean. So it's a blessing that people have these dollars, don't get me wrong, you know, and you know, Fidelity would always put out a report early on in my career, it's called the 10-year college progress report, and it would say something like that. More people are more actively saving money, but you know, the average amount of money saved is right around that thirty thousand dollars, which that's great, but then where will the other 70% like if college is gonna cost $100,000 net cost, and I've got 30 saved, that's a blessing. But where's the other $70,000 coming from? And is that worth the investment? Yeah.

Ed Beemiller 13:55

So so what are some of the ways in which what can we do, bro?

Ryan Fleming 13:59

Parents can how can we get organized for this?

Brian Minier 14:01

Well, before I get into the the first point, is I remember talking to my dad years ago, and he's a university of Akringrad, and I remember him the zips, that's where I graduated my undergrad from. And I remember him telling me I could work all summer and pay for the whole year of tuition. And even back when I graduated the same time, the same year you did. Yeah, there's no way I could have done that. Yeah. So man, you talk about inflation and just how things have changed. Landscape's different. You know, as you as you read off those numbers of what college costs, the the first thing is just start planning early

Start Early And Get Expert Help

Brian Minier 14:35

as much as you can. I mean, there's different vehicles, whether it's a 529 or something else, just start now and take advantage of whatever growth that you can get. The earlier that you start, more growth that you're gonna have, depending on what type of mechanism and and what investment options that you pick. And even if it's just a little bit, we say this about retirement too. 30,000 is the average, that's not gonna, that's not gonna do it, right? Uh take it through the four years. So anything that you can start, the first thing would be just to start early and and try to pick the right vehicle and invest that or save that the way that you feel is gonna help you the most.

Ryan Fleming 15:16

100%. I would add to that and say consider working with a professional. Um, you know, a little bit of a shameless plug here, but in addition to being a certified financial fiduciary, um, I'm also a certified college financial coach and consultant. And uh I have um passed a test uh that gave me some letters after my name stating uh that. And so when you work with a professional in the same way you'd work with a CPA or a lawyer or an orthopedic surgeon or a dentist, um, there's a lot of professionals throughout the country that can help you through this investment, through the system, the financial aid and admissions system, and organize your affairs to where you might be able to receive more need-based money, or maybe you can appeal and negotiate with the school. We just had a very huge success story this year with a client where we got them through the process, we helped them with the financial aid forms, we helped them with ACT and SAT prepping, you know, we reviewed uh their applications and all of this stuff, but then at the very end, we took the uh four or five award letters that they got and we had had a professional appeals and negotiation session with them. And believe it or not, I don't even know if I told you this, but uh their number one school for their daughter was Kenyon. Of course, and uh it I mean she really, really wanted to go there, and we ended up uh helping them uh receive $67,000 more dollars in free month over four years. That's fantastic. That's incredible. Now it doesn't happen like that all the time, but a f uh a college financial professional can help you through all the different facets of the investment process. Had they not worked with you, they would have never found that. And they and they admittedly told me that to my face. Now, again, uh so it whether it be raising an ACT score by one or two points that can yield more merit-based dollars, maybe helping uh a kid go to the right school and doesn't change majors from you know, maybe teaching to nursing and waste two semesters and then you gotta spend an extra 25, 30 grand to go that extra year or two. Whatever it may be, working with a financial professional can actually help keep a lot of money in your pocketbook. So that's one way that we can mitigate your cost. Yep. Uh what else? What else, Ed?

Ed Beemiller 17:24

Well, I I think you know, kind of as an extension to what some of the things that you do within that college program to help them, you know, uh basically not only evaluate, but then

Financial Aid Myths And Merit Money

Ed Beemiller 17:35

you know get the least cost for for the schools, whether it be merit-based aid or you know, other grants or different things that are available with that.

Ryan Fleming 17:46

Yeah, you gotta know your numbers, right?

Ed Beemiller 17:48

Understand your numbers because I I kind of equate it to like buying a car. There's a sticker price. So if you if if you guys remember when I was going through the stats and and talked about the c cost of college, so I'd be like $94,000, $95,000.

Ryan Fleming 18:01

Yep.

Ed Beemiller 18:03

Not, you know, I would say very few people pay that.

Ryan Fleming 18:06

You shouldn't be paying sticker price. You should not pay sticker price. A little tip never pay the sticker price of the college. So don't doing something wrong, probably most of the time.

Ed Beemiller 18:16

Almost all these college have some level of aid, some better than other, but once again, that's where your college program or you know that you do, you can actually give real-time statistical data of this school meets a hundred percent of the need-based aid. That's right. That's right. So it's not just a matter of, oh, I I bleed scarlet and gray, so I want to go to Ohio State University. Well, you got to look at, all right, what's the degree? What's your expected annual salary once you graduate, if you're gonna stay in that in that profession or you know, uh follow up on the studies that that you got your degree in. Yeah. And so don't just look at when you're looking at college, don't just pull up this number and say, oh my god, 95,000? Yep, they're all off the list.

Ryan Fleming 19:05

Yeah, you gotta know what your income and assets are at relative to the financial aid formulas and what they expect you to pay and all this good stuff. There it's more than just the sticker price, right? 100 million percent. Right, right.

Ed Beemiller 19:17

Yeah, there's so many different facets like you talk about with FASPA. And you know, you can have a couple that are good, strong income earners and be like, well, we're not gonna get any aid. You know, that's not necessarily true. Or if you got a real smart kid, that's right. That merit-based aid doesn't matter if if you make 50,000 or a million.

Ryan Fleming 19:36

Yeah, it has nothing to do with your income and assets. Right.

Ed Beemiller 19:39

So that's right. So that's where you know, once again, we talk about financial literacy. Well, this is this is part of that. You know, choosing this is one of the biggest financial decisions that you're gonna make in your lifetime. It is, is is how do you pay for college for your children?

Ryan Fleming 19:54

You're essentially, you could you could argue you're essentially buying a car every year for the next four years. Right. If it just never shows up in your driveway. Well, yeah, well, that's right.

Ed Beemiller 20:02

What what happens?

Brian Minier 20:03

I never get to drive it.

Ed Beemiller 20:04

Right. Well, I experience it, B, you're experiencing it. You may have

Choosing Schools Based On Real Value

Ed Beemiller 20:10

one year overlap, but what happens if you have two kids in college?

Ryan Fleming 20:13

I just you're buying two cars. I know. I just I'm doing it, I just did it. Yeah.

Brian Minier 20:17

What else?

Ryan Fleming 20:18

What else can we do?

Brian Minier 20:19

Well, I I think one of the most important things is choose the right school for the right value. I know, Ryan, you talk about this all the time. I want to give a quick story. Some really dear family friends of ours, they had four daughters, and this is years ago, but they were just enamored with my daughters, they need to go to these private schools, more prestigious schools, and they probably spent two or three times more than they needed to just for the sake of going to those schools. Now, here's the thing I'm pretty sure two of the four aren't even working in the field in which they got their degree in. One of them is actually a stay-at-home mom, and that's fantastic. But when you spent six figures for a degree, and now you're not even in that field and you're not even in the workforce, how much money did you just spend for that degree that you talk about the investment, it's not even worth it. I one of the best pieces of advice I remember when when Josh, my son, went to orientation, and Ryan, you were at the same orientation, you probably remember this, and they said pick three things three three extracurricular activities. Pick one you love, pick one that's gonna be a challenge for you, and pick one that's related to your field. And my son did that. So he played football, that was the thing that he loved. He went into radio, which he's going into media and he got a job where he's got yeah, I'm really, really proud of him. Proud of him for that. And then he did FCA, something that was a challenge because it got him to speak and and lead and thing and so even played music. Yeah, and so the the thing of it was because he followed that advice, he was able to take control of his own destiny versus hey, I'm relying on the name of this school. to get me to where I went. Now, are there schools that are more presti is prestigious? Of course. Of course there are. And and having a an Ivy League degree or if you have a if you're in engineering, obviously there's certain schools that are well known for that or certain fields that have schools that are known for those. But in general, we see this all the time. A lot of kids graduate and then they don't even get a job in the field that they had. And so did you overpay for the school just because you thought that school was going to get you.

Ryan Fleming 22:29

And it's a fine line too because you know that's why I said college planning is a retirement issue. And somebody could come back to us and say but I have plenty of money. It's not going to affect my retirement. That's what I want to do. I want to buy that experience. But in in generalities a lot of people do overpay for college the undergrad route. You know we talked about your daughter you know went to the pre-med route and went on to med school. A lot of families think that they have to have this incredible pre-med bio track and they overpay for the undergrad where the pedigree of what they're going to be known for is the med school that they go to, you know, things like that.

Ed Beemiller 23:06

And so well or they they go the pre-med route and decide they don't want to do that. Exactly. Or they don't get in. And they went to that school because they're pre-med or they don't get in. That's right.

Ryan Fleming 23:16

Or they don't get in. So I we could talk about this probably for another hour or two. But the way that I want to sum it up Huddlers is this is that just like anything in life we have to justify an ROI on college planning the return on investment. How do you as an investor into a a college education even a trade school education justify an ROI? And the way that I try to talk to my clients about this is that the way that you do this is that you can no matter what the sticker price is take the sticker price take the uh you know the feel and fit of the university do they have the uh major that you're interested in take all that in consideration from the investment and then after you get free money after you you use a $529 maybe grandma and grandpa have some money what is that net cost and if you don't have all the money to pay for it or it's not met all with grants or scholarships and you have a gap and you have to borrow that for that gap, you can afford no more than your future anticipated first year annual salary in total debt to justify a good ROI in my humble opinion. And we start with that premise and that basis on the investment for college. And I guess as the huddlers out there if you or anyone else is going through this right now or people that have young kids and you're listening to this, let's start early

ROI Rule And Closing Callouts

Ryan Fleming 24:45

let's start talking to those parents as soon as possible from a savings and investment standpoint for this net cost of college. But if you have anybody that's a seventh through senior in high school invite them in. Let's talk to these people out there so we can try to end the student loan debt crisis that we have in this country. That's significant. And uh and that's really where I'll leave it here today Huddlers we love you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in each and every week sharing our show like follow subscribe thank you for those that are responding with uh episodes and topics that you want us to talk about we're going to be talking about those coming up here real soon. So we we're reading all those we're taking those to heart but keep tuning in let's just keep getting smarter together and learning a few things we love you guys. We'll talk to you next time.

Ed Beemiller 25:28

Stay tuned we're going to answer those questions for you.

Ryan Fleming 25:30

Thanks for stopping by stay classly stay class. See you guys take care